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Author Topic: Carnatic Music Legends  (Read 7667 times)
Srivas
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« on: April 13, 2010, 11:48:48 PM »

Satyansh ji,  - Srivas here.

I  have browsed your website and found it musically very interesting and balanced in discussing various musical topics. Let us not get into the propoganda on mohd rafi.com - currently a long debate on rafi- ghantasala is again going on there at true voice col.

Hope, you won't mind discussing on carnatic music in this site. I wanted to share a beautiful solo song of ghantasala for your listening. This song is composed by the maestro himself in a telugu film and the raga is purely based on the Kalyani raga. Here is the link to the song.

http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=8205&wid=1228

If the link opens, you can directly hear, otherwise you can type the same in URL and listen to it.

The Kalyani and Sankarabharana ragas are the main sampurna ragas which are appreciated by majority of the musicians and people in the south, by virtue of the inherent melody present in the ragas. In Hindusthani music the same correspond to the kalyan and Bhilawal thaat as we had discussed earlier. And if time permits, we can discuss on some hindi film songs in the aforesaid ragas.
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satyansh
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 10:56:20 AM »

Srivas ji,

I am humbled by appreciation from qualified musicians such as you. I would love for there to be discussions on carnatic songs and their Hindustani counterparts. There is so much I need to learn about the southern legends. People such as yourself, Prabhanjan, Vithal ji, Khan ji, etc. have much to offer us. I moved your post to a separate thread where we can carry forward the discussion.

This is a very soulful song indeed. I have heard it a few times since you posted it. Love the free-flowing voice and the overtones used. Can you please share more of Ghantasala's numbers? Also SPB, Yesudas, Susheela, Janaki, etc. if possible. At the very least we can have a brief introduction and analysis of those numbers from fans.

Prabhanjan,

Please share SPB's gems here as well.

I don't think we have Vithal ji and Khan ji here and don't have a way to reach them. If any of you has a way to contact them, please do so.
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Srivas
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 07:17:24 AM »

Dear Satyansh ji,

That was nice. Just have a hearing for this great song of P Suseela, a melodious number indeed. I request you to specifically concentrate on the last para of the song. This song is probably one of those great songs  for which P Suseela is always remembered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyKgHU5n5M4 (External Embedding Disabled)

Carnatic music is highly deep and technical and Mangalampalli Balamuralikrishna, believed to be one of the greatest classical musician of the current times, has stated that anyone who is proficient in this type of music, is capable of singing any type of genre in any kind/form of music, with little practise. The Hindusthani music as such is generally referred with the versions such as light music etc. which is capable of giving nice breath control. In general terms, of course subject to very few exceptions, the expert carnatic musicians can as well render hindusthani ragas, because many ragas have counterparts in both the forms of music.


The following is a semiclassical rendition from ghantasala, the song has shades of hindusthani styles and you can recall some of the famous ustads of hindusthani music in singing fast paced ragas in the renditions.

http://www.dishant.com/jukebox.php?songid=34638
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satyansh
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 11:29:29 AM »

Srivas ji,

Loved the song of P Suseela. She has a very melodious voice as well. Ghantasala was simply AWESOME. Enjoyed it a lot.

In my limited understanding, I agree with the notion that Carnatic does seem tougher at certain levels and that a person proficient at singing this type of music would be capable of singing other genres. I would not say that trained Hindustani classical stalwarts are singing light music. They are way too good for us to say that. Also, IMO the "shruti" element might have a greater presence in Hindustani. Good vocal flexibility, training, etc. irrespective of the area of expertise helps as there is a lot of overlap in different styles of singing. Certainly, expertise in classical does make it a lot easier to sing other genres. That being said, there are other aspects like different voices suit different genres, singers themselves connecting more to a certain genre, etc.

I'm going to ask you a tough one. Please share your top 10 favorite songs of Ghantasala across all genres at this time.
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Srivas
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 03:43:32 AM »

Thank you Satyansh ji,

That was P Suseela. In fact, if any comparison is made between here and lata, many people from the south also say that Suseela has a voice which is more melodious than lata mangeshkar (we are not interested in comparison), actually both these singers rank top in the female playback singers category.

Sure, we can discuss ghantasala among various genres, I think one by one as that will help better to appreciate things in a fair manner.

You have heard P Suseela's melody :

Just hear a duet for Melody of ghantasala and P Leela, another famous female playback singer of yester years: -

Song - The Romantic Genre.

http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=6924&wid=974

That was fair enough vis - a - vis  your points on Hindusthani and carnatic music.
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satyansh
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2010, 11:48:12 AM »

Another fine song. I liked the composition and imagine that it would sound nice even if it is rendered with longer steadier notes. Is it the recording, my earphones or is Ghantasala singing in a softer voice? Are there songs of Ghantasala in Kishore's "CHanni hui awaaz" - like "Roop Tera Mastana"? It is one of those songs that could easily transition into Hindi.

What is your opinion on Manna De's songs in Padosan (Chatur Naar, Saawariya) as a South Indian master? I simply love what he did with those songs and of course RDB was outstanding.
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Srivas
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2010, 06:49:28 AM »

Satyansh ji,

The song was in ghantasala's soft melodious/sweet voice, which type of voice, I think you would not have heard earlier. That is why I provided the link to the song. The voice pertained to the middle 1950's. Ghantasala, being a trained classical specialist, used to change his voice depending upon the mood, song, genre mainy keeping in view the requirements of the raga and composition. All pleasant and cool melodious ragas such as mohana, kalyana compositions of the 50's you will find this soft melodious voice. You would have recognised the filmy melodious voice. This changing of voice technique, being a specialised factor, many of his fans/musicians  believe that ghantasala was gifted with the "most majestic voice" which had the qualities of soft melody as well as the dynamic majestic factor/sharpness (which you might have heard in many of the songs which were shared with you earlier), which he used to change depending upon the type of song, the situation and raga. Knowledge of telugu language will surely provide for cent percent appreciations, specially the moods and expressions to the ultimate perfection  in all  his songs. Many of his fans prefer his sharp, knife like voice in high pitches, specially in his padyam and sansrit sloka genres (syamala dandakam for instance)

I will just show you a surprise. See this rendition by ghantasala composed by himself. The scene is quarelling with his spouse and he displays anger in the form of song, (pl. carefully hear until the end)

0:59 to 1: 14 in the song - the father in law comes into scene (this is another singers voice) - remaining all song is by ghantasala

This is a roudra rasa genre - a terrific anger displayed in singing form.

http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=4972&wid=736

I am not aware of any hindi song by rafi or kishore in the said type of genre, could you kindly provide a link to any of the song of rafi or kishore or any other hindi singer in such type of roudra rasa genre.

Next, padosan Ek chatur naar, I heard that Manna dey was reluctant to sing the song as he was told that he has to accept defeat in the song with Kishore kumar, because manna was more trained in the classical field. My opinion was that Manna did well in the song, has edge against kishore from the technical angle, whereas kishore was good from the comical angle for which his voice suited well in this particular song and since he sang for the hero, he was made to win and accordingly his part was, in my view, easy to render as compared to Manna dey. The song is nicely composed and an interesting one.
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satyansh
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 11:17:51 PM »

Srivas ji,

Pardon the delayed response. I wanted to reply only after I heard the song and I could not do so over the weekend.

I liked Ghantasala's softer voice a lot as well. What I like most about Ghantasala's voice is that it is free-flowing and shows no strain as he goes across from udara through to tara. He has a khuli-hui awaaz, as do Kishore and Manna. Obviously he maintains the uniformity as he renders all those difficult compositions you and others have shared.

I heard the song you shared below a few times and enjoyed it. Since I do not understand the Telugu language, I interpreted the expressions (minus some parts) as more of a comical annoyance or irritation ("yeh kya ho raha hai" or "accha ... tune yeh kiya woh kiya" types) rather than that of absolute anger. Even the female response from 1:24 to 1:40 sounds like an explanation or justification of some sort. I do understand that irritation is a milder form of expression of Roudra Rasa and that my interpretation might be erroneous since I do not understand the language. If you could transalate the lyrics that would help me remember a similar song of Rafi or Kishore in this genre. Other Rafi/Kishore fans could also likely provide examples.

Thank you for sharing your views on the Padosan song. Manna was also reluctant to sing "Ketaki Gulab Juhi" with the stalwart Pandit Bhimsen Joshi as he figured there was no way he could defeat the maestro. I am glad they finally sang the song. It is a beautiful number.
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Srivas
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 05:30:07 AM »

Satyansh ji,

Thank you for your views. Yes, it was a comical irritation in the roudra rasa genre, and you could catch it correctly. It is a argumentative situation, the husband is blaming his wife suspecting her character and she is giving explanation, in the end he shouts loudly, you might have heard, the  shouting is by ghantasala himself, you would have noticed in the song.

Ketaki gulab juhi, a nice song, sure stalwart pandit ji is too difficult to be surpassed by anyone. The situation was same in basant bahar, similar to padosan, i.e Manna dey was shown to win because he sang for the lead role, despite the other singer (pandit ji) being supreme, much similar to ek chatur naar, kishore was made to win, because he sang for hero despite manna dey being a more capable singer in the classical range. In fact, I was given to understand in basant bahar that manna dey ran away from the studio when he was informed that he  has to sing with pandit bhimsen joshi ji, manna humbly claimed that he was no match for the giant pandit ji, but pandit ji had a talk with manna de and got convinced him to sing the song. Manna did very well in ketaki gulab juhi (of course, no comparison for the stupendous talent of pandit ji), but as a musician, I can easily say for sure that  the composition was conveniently made for Manna in a way that gives a beautiful attraction, of course, I am sure, manna's rendition can be easily rendered by pandit ji and not vice versa - sure.

A discussion on hindola raga of carnatic which is the malkauns of hindusthani. You might have heard rafi's man tarpat hari darshan ko, in this raga, of course, it was not a fast  type rendition but nicely composed balanced rendition nicely sung by mohd. rafi.

Here are two renditions in hindola raga by ghantasala - hope you will enjoy the same.

http://www.dishant.com/jukebox.php?songid=35584


http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=4978&wid=736
(composed by himself)

You will note the majestic punch in the  songs.

An introduction to padyam - unique genre of telugu film industry.

A padyam is a  rendition which is a song form in the dramatic style of genre and is unique to telugu language. Ghantasala was too unique and special in this genre, and undoubtedly the greatest among all singers who rendered this genre in films. Padyam which was originally sung only on stage drama earlier , was brought into the hearts of all people in a widely recognised and appreciated way by the only ghantasala through films, due to his special unique skills in this genre. Most of the padyams are sung in mythological films, for which area the telugu industry is considered as unique and mythological films  from telugu industry are considered as the greatest in the indian film industry.


A padyam by ghantasala for you :

http://www.dishant.com/jukebox.php?songid=37415

What do you say on raga/taans rendered by ghantasala - He has a special style on his own, which is believed to be unsurpassable.

An achievement of the telugu industry. Mayabazar is a black and white evergreen film based on the characters of Mahabharata, made in 1957 with the leading stalwarts of the telugu industry playing major roles in the film, has been released on Jan. 30. 2010, in Andhra Pradesh (as well in US ) - remade in digital colour technology  (like mughal e azam and naya daur). The film is running packed houses even  now and is going to complete 100 days on May 10, 2010. The music is scored by ghantasala for the film. You might have heard a comedy song of ghantasala from this film i.e. sundari nee vanti devya swaroopamu.. that has been the influence of Mayabazar and ghantasala as well on the telugu industry, which continues...
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satyansh
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2010, 08:39:32 AM »

Srivas ji,

It speaks volumes of Ghantasala's excellent emoting that a person who does not understand the language can catch on to the expressions.

I totally agree with you, Pandit Bhimsen Joshi is indeed extraordinary. After the recording, Pandit ji told Manna Dey that he has a lot of talent and that he should/can sing classical. I believe to have read this or something on these lines in one of Manna Dey's interviews.

"Mann Tarpat" was indeed a very melodious rendition by Rafi. It was interesting for me to note the way Rafi rendered the higher notes in this song. Even though he has sung higher than what he does in this song, there is a noticeable change in voice and style in the way he renders the high notes. Not sure why, but I enjoy it nonetheless.

Ghantasala does excel in his taans. He clearly has a lot of control as he maintained uniformity throughout all the songs you have shared so far. His voice doesn't show any strain and continues to be free-flowing. The padyam seemed to end abruptly. I'm not sure if it was the link or my network connection.
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Srivas
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2010, 04:40:15 AM »

Hello Satyansh ji,

Thanks a lot for your points. SPB is the only singer who could establish himself in the telugu industry after ghantasala and SPB could hold his sway for close to 15 years from 1980-1995 (approx.) The telugu industry virtually was searching for a singer who could do justice to the film industry as the void created by ghantasala (after his passing away in 1974) was unreplicable. For full 6 years i.e upto 1980, experiments were done with various singers, until SPB established himself from 1980 through the film Sankarabharanam. SPB is not much classically trained, but had a good grasping power and memory so that he could learn and render songs even requiring technical ability. SPB, though cannot be compared  in any way for his predecessor in the telugu industry, could well meet the requirements of the industry, particularly his break dance numbers etc. have been well received by the people and the most successful hero was chiranjeevi for SPB songs.

Here is a SPB (with vani jairam) song tuned by Illayaraja - an experimental combination of both traditional classical carnatic music and modern break dance effects - both mixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDTWYHcqE8 (External Embedding Disabled)

And here is a SPB song in the classical style (The music director composed this song keeping in mind the song siva sankari of ghantasala in mind)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUVAYZXPSuI (External Embedding Disabled)

A good "attempt" by SPB for singing the classical number.


The following is a melodious duet by suseela and ghantasala (composed by himself) for you.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BsvlRxMmusM&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/BsvlRxMmusM&amp;ap=%2526fmt%3D18&amp;rel=0</a>
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